Thursday, 13 September 2012

Anybody who has read my blog on anything like a regular basis will know that I have praised the Asian bookmakers on more than one occasion. I have openly admired their willingness to take bigger bets and to keep winning accounts open, as opposed to the high street bookmakers who slam their books shut as soon as they see just the slightest sign of a customer knowing what they are doing.

However, all is not rosy in the gardens of the Asian bookmakers. I mentioned the other day that it is a not uncommon occurrence for their websites to crash. And it seems like they don't like granting account holders easy access to their cash.

Allow me to explain...

When I opened accounts with Pinnacle and Dafabet, I used Moneybookers to make my initial deposit. With 12bet, SBO and 188bet, I foolishly used my VISA Debit card. Boy, what a mistake that was!

Up until this point, I have simply let the balances in these accounts grow as profits accrued. I had no need to withdraw. Knowing I would be upping my stakes for this football season from last, I thought it wise to build up reserves so that I didn't have to constantly be depositing money into the accounts to cover the bets I wanted to place. This week though, I have wanted to trim those balances. I don't wish to cast any aspersions, but I didn't feel comfortable keeping larger sums in the clutches of companies based on the other side of the world where gaming jurisdictions aren't quite so transparent as those I'm familiar with in the UK (although it should be noted that SBO appear to be based in exotic and far flung Isle of Man).

And that is where my problems started. Withdrawing from Pinnacle (I love them!) and Dafabet was simple and quick - in fact the money withdrawn was sitting smiling at me in my Moneybookers account within hours of making the withdrawal requests. The other Asian bookmakers on the otherhand...Blimey O'Reilly, it's been a right old ding dong.

The troubles have arisen you see, from the fact that the debit card I used for the initial deposits expired about six weeks ago. Naturally, as soon as I received my new card in the post, I cut my old one up. I did make sure that to each bookmaker I sent a scan of my new card to sit in their security files alongside copies of my driving licence (ID) and bank statement/utility bill. Did such conscientiousness mean that I avoided problems when the time came to make a withdrawal? - did it bugger like!

I don't like to mention names in public so the identity of the bookmaker concerned will remain hidden. (It was 188bet). To cut a very long story short, they wanted a copy of the card - yes, the one that had now expired and had been cut up - before they would process the withdrawal. Despite my explanation that I couldn't supply the relevant info and the reasons why not, they simply came back with the same request.

However, it would appear that as soon as you get stroppy with these guys, they back down. Here is a copy of the last email I sent to them...

You asked for that in the last email - so I will tell you again, I DO NOT HAVE THESE RECORDS - THEY HAVE BEEN DESTROYED!

I don't understand why it is not possible to set the account up for me to use Moneybookers. This is what Pinnacle Sports, SBO Bet and Dafabet have done. You already have all of my security information on file. I can deposit using Moneybookers so you have total proof of my identity. I cannot send you any information at all relating to my old card. I am beginning to be concerned that you are simply preventing me from having access to my funds.

Please can you sort this problem out. I would like to gain access to part of the funds in my account. I am not being unreasonable or obstructive. If you cannot do this, I will have to take it up with the relevant gaming authority.

Thankyou in advance.

Stroppy? A little, I guess. Seemed to work though as the next email I received from them read:

Dear Mr. Day

Your username is: xxxxxxx

We acknowledge receipt of your concern and we understand your situation. We are writing to confirm that we will no longer request from you the card copy ending in xxxx and its statement for future verification.

We apologize for all inconveniences you have encountered and thank you for bearing with us.

You may now login to your account and enjoy the wide range of exciting products that we have lined up for you. Enjoy wagering and best of luck!

Fair enough. It might have taken about eight emails but at least we got there in the end. The thing is though, I had already experienced the exact same levels of obstruction from SBO Bet, only the issue here was that I couldn't withdraw to Moneybookers despite the fact that I had deposited with Moneybookers previously, simply because my "primary" source of deposit had been the now-expired bank card. Again, it wasn't until I got really stroppy that I got anywhere, but as soon as I did, they backed down immediately, setting my account up to enable me to withdraw to Moneybookers, which is all I had asked for in the first place.

Now this isn't a lesson in being stroppy. I don't like being stroppy. From reading the blog, I'm sure you can all see what a patient, charming chap I am (*ahem*). No, this is more a warning to anyone reading who might just be thinking of opening an account with any of these guys. If you do - and you should - please, please, please use Moneybookers right from the off. You'll make life so much easier for yourself in the future if you do.

The slightly more concerning note from all of this is that I have come away with the impression, Pinnacle and Dafabet apart, that these bookmakers will make life as difficult for you as possible to withdraw from your account. Why is that?

Anyone had similar experiences? Perhaps it's just me.

(Edit): LATE UPDATE - the saga may not yet be over...

Wednesday's Betting

Much better day, with a strong performance on the nags.

Northern Monkey
Wayne went in big in the big sprint at Doncaster (Sole Power - 5/2), the two point win bet being landed in quite some style by a horse that with a furlong to go appeared blocked behind a wall of galloping beast. A very sharp turn of foot later, and he was clear by more than a length to land the spoils. Another winner was found on the same card (Born To Surprise - Doncaster - 15/2), although this was just a saver bet for the losing favourite.
Staked 4.25pts, +4.875pts

The Sportsman Racing
I thought Scott unlucky with this one, the selection not so much being hampered on the bend into the straight as completely knobbled.
Staked 0.5pts, -0.5pts

Winning Racing Tips
Mmmm. When the tip came through, I thought Paul was taking the piss. Only out of me, you understand. He'd gone for an each way double, the second horse being called Van Percy. Did I really want to back a horse with that name. To be honest I half expected it to withdraw lame with a vet certificate before the race, or to be leading with 200 yards to go before pulling up crocked. As it is, it won. And so did the first horse (Sorella Bella - Carlisle). A good return, and we move on from Van Percy. Quickly.
Staked 0.6pts, +1.85pts

Summer Of Football
A winner and a loser over in Brazil overnight for a tiny profit.
Staked 2pts, +0.03pts

Month to date figures...

Northern Monkey: Staked 18pts, -0.593pts, roi -3.29%
The Sportsman Racing: Staked 1.5pts, -0.583pts, roi -38.86%
Winning Racing Tips: Staked 3.5pts, +3.985pts, roi 113.87%
Total roi 27.65%

Football Elite: Staked 1pt, +/- (+/-£), roi 0%, ROC 0%
Summer Of Football: Staked 13pts, +4.102pts, roi 31.55%, ROC 16.4%
Skeeve (Asians): Staked 13pts, -5.445pts, roi -41.88%
Skeeve (Doubles): Staked 5pts, +8.785pts, roi 175.71%
Skeeve (Shortlist): Staked 6pts, -4.565pts, roi -76.08%
Skeeve Total: Staked 24pts, -1.224pts, roi -5.1%, ROC -1.53%
The Sportsman: Staked 0.5pts, +0.063pts, roi 12.6%, ROC 1.05%
Form Lab Lite: Staked 14pts, +0.512pts, roi 3.65%, ROC 1.02%
Sportyy: Staked 6.5pts, -2.232pts), roi -34.33%, ROC -2.79%
Service X: Staked 85pts, -11.397pts, roi -13.4%, ROC -11.39%
Total roi 5.52%

Grand Total roi 9.35%


  1. It's all down to international money laundering laws! Funny how there's no problem depositing the stuff in the first place. I cannot see how they can fall foul of money laundering act when we look to withdraw to same bank account that cash originated from.

    1. Yeah, you're spot on.

      I simply get the distinct impression that they don't want to encourage you in the slightest to actually withdraw some money. I can understand that if your business model is based on lower margins but increased turnover, as the Asian model is, then it's in the company's interests to have coffers that are swelling to make it easier to handle the turnover. But still...


  2. As previous person said. It has to do with money laundry. So you do not deposit one way and withdraw the other way. Same way in > same way out.
    What you can do however is make another deposit with your new card. That way it will be registered in their system. When making a deposit with a new card your old one becomes invalid at most bookies. Some still however leave it valid. But that does not matter, since it already is registered. You can then withdraw the money to the new card without any hassle. They might need proof of the new card and identity but they will not ask you for proof for your old card.

    1. Hi Sam,

      Yeah, I agree with everything you say, but in the case of 188bet and SBO, I had actually already used Moneybookers to make a deposit, just not my initial deposit, for which I used my bank card. I understand that these companies have to be wary of money laundering - let's face it, these guys cater for some pretty big hitters - but all I was ever asking them to do was to allow me to withdraw in the same way as I had previously made a deposit.

      SBO sorted it out pretty quickly, in fairness. 188bet have proved more tricky, but news on that in tomorrow's post (Tuesday).